In a private conversation with DNBN Magazine, we sit down with the formidable partnership of Robert Doornbos and Frank Lagerveld, the masterminds behind the innovative firm Doornbos Lagerveld & Partners (DLP). We delve into their entrepreneurial spirit, their approach to family office management, their insights on real estate funds, and their vision for the future of business, especially in the context of AI and Dutch-Norwegian relations.
Introduction to the Partners
With such diverse backgrounds in banking, management, and consultancy, how do your individual experiences complement each other in leading Doornbos Lagerveld & Partners?
Robert: It is precisely because our backgrounds are so different, that we can make the most of our mutual experiences. They are 100% complementary.
Frank: When you look at the two main type of activities of DLP, 1. set-up and governance/management of international investment funds and 2. discretionary asset management (wealth management), it is not just our different backgrounds that matter, but also our similar experiences. For example, both have been executive managers, were exposed to the approval and control of financial authorities (AFM, DNB) and dealt with financing of real estate.
With Robert as a trained economist/marketeer and former (private) banker and Frank as a trained legal advisor with a history in operations (logistics), consultancy, interim management and supervisory board memberships, they combine their experiences of having been at various sides of the business table.
With these different backgrounds and separate professional careers, our professional networks form a valuable complementary base for both activities of DLP.
Entrepreneurship
What was the catalyst that propelled you both to leave established careers and embark on the journey of entrepreneurship together?
Robert: Having been a banker for 30 years, you have seen a lot within a corporate. Being responsible for several companies and hundreds of employees was challenging and fun. Now back to the very best, direct contact with customers, negotiating, closing and executing deals is fantastic.
Frank: For me it was perhaps a little different since I had already left my comfortable corporate position in 2003. I started my own company and accepted a position as partner in a consultancy firm. In 2016, I made the next move to become an independent professional, running my own business without staff.
We know each other from the time we used to live on opposite sides of the same street in 1995; we go back quite some years. We were members of the same clubs and over the years became friends and used to share our professional experiences on a regular base. Robert even contracted me a few times as consultant. We knew both were ambitious and had the energy to start a new business. So, when this popped up again over a nice dinner, it was not too big a step to decide to embark on that journey together. And no regrets!!
How do you maintain a balance between innovation and risk management when advising SME entrepreneurs?
Robert: My adage is ‘The customer comes first’. My advice always starts from this adage. In the relatively hard learning experience as a management trainee at ING, you learn that it is not only the achievement of financial results that leads to applause. Only when the compliance issues are also in order, only then you are a stunner. In my advice to SME entrepreneurs, I will always keep the boundaries of compliance in mind, which is also in the customer's best interest when innovating.
Frank: Wow, such a short question, but it triggers a lot more then I can put in a brief response. Besides the general risks of any entrepreneur, each type of business will have to face specific risks and challenges. For all it is important to evaluate their business and action plans on a regular base and confront the trends and relevant changes in market, economy, legal, tech, environment, social, politics, etc. with the impact on their business and organisation. Changes and shifts do happen, that is a given, so you should be very alert and make conscious decisions about your business model. Innovation can be disruptive, but that is only a problem when you missed it. Strategy is not a project but a state of mind.
Family Office
In managing family offices, how do you personalize your services to cater to the unique needs of each family or individual?
Robert: When you really put ‘The customer comes first’, you learn to listen carefully and ask further to understand the underlying wishes and needs of your customers. That is the basis for arriving at sound, well-founded advice. In addition, accessibility and personal attention are essential.
Frank: I agree. Of course, as an individual you can not master all areas of expertise, but as a team you can provide ‘one stop shopping’ for clients and take the responsibility to direct tasks to the right skilled persons (internal or with carefully selected external partners).
What are the most common concerns your clients have, and how does your firm address them?
Robert: The biggest concern with a family office is that the assets remain intact and continue to provide (additional) income or wealth, even when the parents are no longer there. In addition, the parent’s wish that each family member gets what he or she should get, while harmony in the family is preserved. With the right structure and independent professional governance and management, we can fulfil the wishes and needs of family offices. Now and in the future.
Frank: Of course, it is also important to be discrete, accessible and responsive. Clients expect their interests to be well protected. The fund itself should maintain an impeccable reputation with the authorities and suppliers.
Real Estate Fund
What is your approach to real estate investment, and how do you ensure it aligns with your clients' wealth-building goals?
Frank: First of all, we continuously monitor the market developments per specific asset class and region. We use investment committees per asset class, with external senior professionals and every transaction proposal has at its base a valuation report by an independent real estate valuator. Per client and per situation, more specific investment criteria will be agreed in advance. This is the way to manage expectations and check the alignment between investment policy and clients wealth-building goals.
Robert: We have established Necron Capital SCSp SICAV-RAIF in November 2023 as an umbrella structure with initially two sub-funds (compartments) for respectively Logistics and Hospitality. The fund has the following characteristics:
Newly build and well located with access to relevant infrastructure (logistics !)
Breeam Excellent certificate (Fund is article 8 SFDR)
Investment grade tenant
Lease term minimum 10 year
Indexed rent (yearly adjustments)
Triple net leaseValuation by independent professional
Transfer within first six months of first rental (to avoid real estate transfer tax)
Frank: From the client/investor perspective this fund is organized as a well-known legal structure according to the standards of European Law, with clear independent governance and audits, this can be an interesting and profitable investment:
Low risk assets (new, 100% occupancy)
Stable income – 5% cash on cash per year
Until 8% IRR all return for LP’s
Above 8% IRR is carried interest with 85% for LP’s
Total expenses of the Fund below 1% AUM
Market value expected to rise (demand exceeds supply)
IRR likely reaches > 10%
Could you discuss the advantages of setting up a real estate fund in the current economic climate?
Robert: Necron Capital's biggest advantage is that we make it possible for clients/investors to invest in Logistics and/or Hotels, with a good return. This can be a good addition to their own investment strategy. Also, in the current economic climate. Talking about climate, we only invest in property build according to state-of-the-art sustainability standards. There is a strong demand for this.
Frank: Of course it matters in what type, quality and location of real estate you want to invest. In general, real estate is still considered to be a good investment. Especially when you can buy without too much debt finance and on a longer term.
A real estate fund is a perfect structure to have multiple investors (limited partners), to spread risks over several assets, to get access to the international capital markets and to profit from a nice IRR.
While real estate remains an attractive asset to invest in, not everyone is able or willing to invest directly. Not only because of the capital needed, but also because they lack time or expertise to act on their own. Last but not least, in some countries tax impacts for direct private investments in real estate become less attractive.
Innovation
How has the digital transformation affected your business model, and what role does technology play in your service delivery?
Robert: In the past, I was responsible for a Securities Bank for 12 years. By using an ‘Investor Giro’ system, we were able to serve many customers with low costs. This left much more time to talk to our customers about the best investment strategy for them.
The industry has not been idle. We will keep looking for what can help us to be efficient and effective so we can spend more time with our clients.
Frank: Investing in digital transformation and new technologies is a must. It is one of the causes of the consolidation trend we talked about. You need volume (economy of scale) to be able to invest in this.
Can you provide an example of a time when a digital approach was not suitable, and a more personal touch was required?
Robert: In recent years, we have become accustomed to mobile phones and online meetings etc. In our line of business this works only as an additional support in a good customer relationship. A perfect way for a brief check-up without losing a lot of time for travel. But for the topics we address in our services, a face-to-face meeting in most cases is necessary.
Frank: Certainly! One notable example where a digital approach in wealth management may fall short is during significant life events, such as the death of a family member or a major financial crisis.
Example: Navigating Inheritance After a Loss
When a client loses a loved one, the emotional weight of the situation can be overwhelming. While digital tools can provide information about inheritance laws, tax implications, and portfolio management, they often lack the empathy and understanding required in such sensitive circumstances.
In this situation, a personal touch is crucial. A wealth manager can offer support by:
In-Person Meetings: Sitting down with the client to discuss their feelings and concerns provides a space for emotional expression, allowing the manager to better understand the client’s unique situation.
Tailored Guidance: A personalized approach can help address specific concerns related to the inherited assets, family dynamics, and long-term financial goals, which may not be fully captured through automated tools.
Emotional Support: Simply being present to listen and support the client can foster trust and strengthen the advisor-client relationship, showing that the advisor genuinely cares about their well-being.
Holistic Planning: After understanding the client’s emotional and financial landscape, the advisor can create a customized plan that aligns with both the immediate needs and future aspirations of the client.
Robert: In such cases, the human elements —empathy, understanding, and personalized attention— play a critical role in helping clients navigate complex emotional and financial decisions, demonstrating that while digital tools can enhance efficiency, they cannot replace the value of human connection in wealth management.
Future
Looking ahead, what are the long-term strategic goals for Doornbos Lagerveld & Partners?
Frank: We expect to grow our activities for the set-up and management of funds and we will extend our international network to market investment opportunities in these funds.
Robert: According to our strategic plan, in addition to all the things we are already doing, we aim to provide services in discretionary asset management. We want to combine state of the art, solid back-office processes and good performance with ‘old fashioned’ personal contact in the services to clients.
Frank: We hear from many people that they miss the possibility to have personal contact, offices are no longer nearby, when you call you get an answering machine and have to wait………
Robert: With a dedicated team and the support a number of investors, we aim to establish a new player (wealth management platform) with 2 billion assets under management by the end of 2024.
Frank: This will typically be a buy and build strategy. We see a clear momentum. Many asset- and wealth management companies are facing challenges with their back office processes or look for succession, so there is a strong consolidation trend.
How do you prepare your clients for the financial challenges of the future?
Robert: Our in-house discretionary asset management allows us to prepare our clients for the financial challenges of the future.
Frank: Preparing clients for the financial challenges of the future involves a multifaceted approach that combines education, planning, and adaptability.
Key strategies any wealth manager should use are Comprehensive Financial Planning, Risk Assessment, Tax Planning and Retirement Planning.
Depending on financial buffers, risk appetite etc. you can discuss scenarios to help clients visualize how different events (e.g., job loss, market crash, or healthcare emergencies) might impact their finances, allowing them to consider proactive measures.
Robert: We promote a Holistic Approach. Incorporating lifestyle factors into financial planning, such as health, family obligations, and personal goals, ensure that financial strategies align with clients' overall life aspirations.
Frank: By taking these steps, advisors can help clients build resilience and confidence in their financial futures, equipping them to navigate potential challenges effectively.
By taking these steps, we can help clients build resilience and confidence in their financial futures, equipping them to navigate potential challenges effectively.
AI - Artificial Intelligence
What potential do you see for AI in your industry, and how might it change the landscape of wealth management and real estate?
Robert: I see a lot of potential for AI in the coming period in further professionalising investment policy, marketing and back-office activities in our operations and in our businesses.
Frank: AI has immense potential to transform wealth management in several ways:
Personalization: AI can analyze vast amounts of data to create tailored investment strategies based on individual client preferences, risk tolerance, and financial goals. This level of customization can enhance client satisfaction and loyalty.
Predictive Analytics: AI can identify market trends and predict potential investment opportunities by analyzing historical data and real-time market movements. This helps wealth managers make more informed decisions.
Automation of Routine Tasks: AI can automate administrative tasks, such as compliance monitoring, reporting, and portfolio rebalancing. This allows wealth managers to focus on strategic planning and client relationships.
Risk Assessment: Advanced algorithms can evaluate risk more accurately by considering a wider range of factors, enabling better risk management and portfolio diversification.
Client Engagement: AI-driven chatbots and virtual assistants can provide clients with real-time information and support, improving communication and enhancing the client experience.
Cost Efficiency: By streamlining operations and reducing the need for manual processes, AI can lower costs for firms, potentially making wealth management services more accessible to a broader audience.
Ethical Investing: AI can help identify sustainable and ethical investment opportunities by analyzing ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) data, aligning investments with clients' values.
Continuous Learning: AI systems can adapt and improve over time, learning from new data and client feedback, which enhances their effectiveness and relevance.
As these technologies evolve, wealth management firms that effectively integrate AI will likely gain a competitive edge, leading to better service and potentially greater profitability. However, it will also be essential to navigate challenges such as data privacy, ethical considerations, and the need for human oversight in decision-making.
In similar ways AI will impact the investment fund industry.
13. Are there any AI-driven initiatives currently in place at Doornbos Lagerveld & Partners?
Frank: Right now, we are experimenting with the use of AI tools in the marketing and communications we implement in our businesses. I think we are still at the beginning of the learning curve, but we are moving forward step by step.
Collecting and selecting data is a key issue and AI provides more and more tools to do so. For segmenting your clients, for targeting your investments etc.
Netherlands-Norway Business Relations
Given the strong maritime and energy sectors in both the Netherlands and Norway, how do you see business relations evolving between the two nations?
Robert: I assume that business relations between the Netherlands and Norway may increase in the future. Hence, with Necron Capital fund, we are also looking at acquiring Logistic buildings in Eemshaven in the near future, in order to properly serve all ships from Norway and vice versa.
Frank: Overall, as both countries navigate the challenges of the energy transition and seek sustainable growth, their existing strengths can create a robust framework for enhanced business relations and collaboration in more than just the maritime and energy sectors.
Think of Research and Development. Joint initiatives in R&D can lead to advancements in areas such as clean shipping technologies, energy efficiency, and carbon capture. Collaborative research projects can attract investment and foster innovation.
Robert: I see opportunities for Supply Chain Synergies. The strong logistics and supply chain capabilities in the Netherlands can complement Norway’s (energy) exports. Enhanced cooperation can improve efficiency and reduce costs in supply chains.
Frank: Furthermore, you may see business opportunities in Climate Initiatives, Trade and Investment, Networking and Events, as well as in Cultural and Educational Exchanges.
I belief the activities of DNBN and a conference like NIEC are beneficial to create cultural ties and business partnerships. It will certainly strengthen understanding and collaboration.
Can you share an example of a successful collaboration or partnership your firm has facilitated between Dutch and Norwegian entities?
Frank: Haha, not yet, but that is why we come to Oslo and seek partnerships in Norway. And we value a reciprocal approach, so we will also gladly offer support for Norwegian entrepreneurs looking for opportunities in the Netherlands
Robert: To do business the right way, we believe a good relationship is crucial. We have built such a relationship step by step over a number of years with Kristian Aartun. Now is the right time for us to get in touch with potential investors and HNWI from Norway. Why? Because we are ready with our products and services. But we understand that it is prudent for us to be supported in our act in Norway. And, of course, we go for the highest quality. Hence, we are assisted by Kristian Aartun, who else?
Robert Doornbos and Frank Lagerveld offer a wealth of knowledge and a forward-thinking approach to business. Their commitment to personal service, combined with a strategic use of digital tools, positions Doornbos Lagerveld & Partners as a leader in their field. Their insights are sure to inspire and guide many in the realms of entrepreneurship, investment, and beyond.
Stay tuned for more thought-provoking content in the next edition of DNBN Magazine.
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