Welcome to the DNBN Interview Series! Here, we delve into the minds of fascinating individuals from all walks of life, asking them ten thought-provoking questions that reveal their unique stories, insights, and experiences. Whether they're leaders in their field, rising stars, or unsung heroes, each guest brings something special to the table. Join us as we uncover the journeys, challenges, and triumphs that have shaped these intriguing personalities. Get ready for candid conversations and inspiring tales that will leave you thinking long after the interview ends. First out is Henning Laurantzon, The Norwegian Tax Advisor working for EY in the Netherlands.
Background and Career Path:
I grew up in Oslo, Norway and after high school and mandatory military service, a year of information technology and a year of engineering, I did a Master of Law at the University of Oslo. I discovered tax law in my 4th year at university, after reading Professor Fredrik Zimmer’s elegant and to the point writings, in his book Lærebok i Skatterett (Introduction to tax law). Most other law books I read up until then, were horrible reads.
I went on to write my master thesis within tax and about a new rule limiting deductibility of losses on related party receivables. This was a hot topic at the time, as a lot of companies had big losses on investments following the 2008 financial crisis.
I landed my first job at the tax office in Molde and a year later I transferred to the Central Tax Office for Large Enterprises in Moss, outside Oslo. At the tax office I got the chance to apply what I learned from my master thesis, on real life cases against Norway’s biggest companies.
Besides denying deduction of losses on receivables I worked on a team responsible for assessment, control and advisory of companies in the Norwegian tonnage tax regime. I was also involved on the organizational side, as employee representative. It was a very exciting time for a young tax professional.
After 4 years at the tax office, I was recruited by EY Oslo. I remember coming to EY thinking I knew everything about tax, but realized fast that I was wrong. At EY Oslo I worked in the International Tax and Transaction Services (ITTS) practice and did everything from cross border structuring and re-structuring / tax optimization of shipping companies, start-ups and scale ups, crypto companies, individual incentives schemes, offshore service operations all over the world, mergers and acquisitions. No shortage of challenges.
After 4 years at EY Oslo I transferred to EY Netherlands, where I now work mainly with Dutch tonnage tax, Transfer Pricing, the new global minimum tax (Pillar 2) and other Dutch and International tax matters.
I am also establishing a Dutch –Nordic Center of Excellence which focus on cross border companies and individuals engaged in activity between the Netherlands and the Nordics (Norway, Denmark, and Sweden for now). We offer
A -Z tax planning, execution, and compliance. And of course, our service catalogue EY’s full service offering such as; automation (e.g. of tax function), Social and Environmental Responsibilities and Grants and Incentives, to name a few.
Journey to the Netherlands:
My journey to the Netherlands started during the covid lock downs, when my Dutch long-distance girlfriend came to visit me in Norway, and she got pregnant with our first child. We decided to give our family and the Netherlands a go.
The first 8 months in the Netherlands I had fathers leave (since my girlfriend was not part of the Norwegian social security system, I got it all), and after that I landed a job/ transferred to EY Netherlands Business Tax Services practice.
This summer I have lived in the Netherlands for 3 years and worked for EY Netherlands for 2 of those years. And, after my girlfriend and I got our second child 9 months ago, I now live with my awesome little family of 4, just outside Nijmegen in the South of Holland.
Transition:
How did you find the cultural transition from Norway to the Netherlands, both personally and professionally?
Its no secret that I have found the transition to the Netherlands quite challenging at times. When i moved here I had zero knowledge of the Dutch language and or taxes for that matter. Adding to this, I become father for the first time, and I had no family or friends in the Netherlands (except from my girlfriends family).
I have learned a lot, not just about Dutch culture, work-life and tax framework, but also about myself. I have developed tremendously as a person the last 3 years. I believe there is a truth to the saying: What doesnt kill you makes you stronger!
With regard to cultural differences, I find the Dutch generally more outgoing than Norwegians, at least before the alcohol kicks in. And, I find them to have a more developed business sense, which sometimes translates to being more direct, which again may be percieved by some as borderline rude. Regardless, they know how to run a business, so I know that as an introvert Norwegian, I have a lot to learn from the Dutch.
At the end of the day, however, there are way more similarities between our cultures than there are differences. There are a lot of nuances of course, but nuances remain nuances.
Professional Experience:
What are some of the key differences you've noticed in the tax advisory practices between Norway and the Netherlands?
Except for, of course, the differences in spoken language and the laws we practice and that regulate our business, if you boil it down, there are no huge differences between the Noregian and Dutch EY practice.
Most striking for me is the difference in size between the organizations. EY Netherlands is as big as the Norwegian tax authorities, which imply more common goods, such as knowledge bases, learning events etc., but also added bureacracy.
Challenges and Opportunities:
What were some of the biggest challenges you faced when you first started working in the Netherlands, and how did you overcome them?
The biggest challenge has without a doubt been the language and the legal framework and established governmental practices, within i practice my work as a tax advisor.
As a legal professional, the better language you have and the more you know about the legal framework you navigate, the better advisor you are.
In Norway i know the ins and outs of the tax authorites practices and the legal framework. Starting as a tax advisor in the Netherlands, I felt like I was playing Monopoly, landed on the wrong spot, and had to go back to the beginning and start all over again.
All legal documents / opinions of the governmental bodies etc. of any significance, are only availbale in Dutch. In the region I work, most of my clients and colleagues are most comfortable with and prefer to speak and read Dutch. So yeah, it goes without saying that I have felt quite the useless advisor at times.
To overcome my challenges I had to accept that I need to take one small step at the time. I cannot learn the Dutch language, laws and governmental practices in one day. I need to build experience one stone at the time.
Kristian Aartun and his Dutch Norwegian Business Network has been of big help for me. And, I have also sought help from coaches, to carve out my path and deal with my challenges. I have learned and accepted that you cannot win the war alone.
Client Relations:
How do you manage relationships with clients from different cultural backgrounds, and what strategies do you use to ensure effective communication?
Managing relationships with people from different cultural backgrounds, I think, has become somehwat of a second nature to me. I am lucky and have travelled the world, I have lived and stuided in the USA and Berlin, in addition to different places in Norway and now the Netherlands. And, in EY Norway I managed tax projects and relationships with local EY offices, in all corners of the world. And, from these experiences i have friends and acquintances from all over the world, and all layers of society.
To manage relationships effectively, you first have to earn the other persons respect. My experience is that if you have a genuin interest in the other person, they will find you interesting and respect you and in the end, give you what you want. If you also smile and laugh together, there are no limits to what you can achieve together. Kill them with a smile, my mother always says. Everyone wants to be seen. That goes for people of all cultural backgrounds. I think its as simple as that.
Once you have earned each others respect, the best and probably only way to ensure effective communication is a clear and crisp language. Make sure to put everyting you agree on in clear and crisp writing and share with all parties involved.
Writing clear and to the point language that everybody understands is an artform in itself, and not something you learn in law school. I have myself had a very good teacher in my boss at EY Oslo, Gjert Melsom. And, i get a lot of inspiration from educating myself within copywriting and sales amongst other things.
Regulatory Environment:
Can you discuss any significant differences in the tax regulatory environments of Norway and the Netherlands that have impacted your work?
A country’s tax laws are a product of the its sociopolitical and econimcal climate. The Netherlands is an old world empire, built on an attractive legal framework both for nationals and foreigners. Its a small country without excess amounts of natural resources, so to generate GDP, they have to provide for an attractive business environment.
The Netherlands is not only a hub for world travel through KLMs network, but they also have a vast tax treaty network and many multinational companies use the Netherlands as international hub.
The welcoming Dutch business environment, also affects its tax framework. The Netherlands have tax incentives for qualified foreigners coming to work here, and capital is much less aggressively taxed than is the case in Norway. Salaries are however pretty much the same.
However, also on the more abstract level, the Dutch tax framework is more taxpayer friendly. One example is the possibility for the tax authorities to re-charactarize a transaction for tax puposes.
In Norway, the tax authorites may re-charactarise a transaction for tax purposes, if the objective circumstances indicate that the main motive of the transaction(s) was to obtain a tax advantage. And, the the business rationale of the transaction(s) at hand appears limtited etc.
So, very simplified, if the tax authorities think you could have done what you did another way that would lead to more tax, the authorities may assume your motive was to avoid tax, and you have to prove them wrong.
In the Netherlands, on the other hand, the tax authorities have to prove that your main motive behind the transaction(s) was to avoid tax/ achieve a tax benefit you would not normally get.
This is a huge difference, because proving someones motive, like the Dutch tax authotieis have to do, is usually a very difficult exercise. While, comparing the tax effects of one chain of events vs. an alternative chain of events leading to the same end, is quite an easy exercise.
Ofcourse, this is an over simplification and nobody wants tax avoidance. But that is also not the point. The point with the example is to illustrate that the Dutch authorities, through the Durtch legal framework, is more the servant of private private businesses (who generates GDP), than is the case in Norway.
In Norway, the biggest value generator is our natural resources which in the end belongs to the people/ state. And through our social model, the state has taken it upon them to reduce the difference between rich and poor, by taxing value generation relatively hard and subsidicing the less fortunate. In such sociopolitical and economical climate, and as long as we have oil, the tax framework in Norway is more interested in what the private business can do for the state, than what the state can do for the business.
I have to add that my experience with the Norwegian tax authorities is that they are generally very service minded towards private business. It is the legal framework that makes the difference.
There are also many other examples of differences in the legal framewroks. For example how the laws are built up. In the Netherlands, EU laws become local law more or less as is. In Norway, often times we intrepret our existing laws to be in line with EU/ EEA law or we just make some minor adjustments.
EU laws, to a much larger extent than Norwegian laws, attempt to regulate every possible situation in the wording of the law. In Norway and especilly within tax, most problems can be solved trhough first principle reasoning.
For a practitioner this has a big impact on how legal arguments are structured etc., and i think the Norwegian way provides for a more sexy look and feel. But there are also risks with the Norwegian model, which i am not going into details about here.
Career Highlights:
What have been some of the most rewarding projects or experiences in your career at Ernst & Young so far?
My career highlights at EY so far happend in Norway. There, there were no shortage of material tax challenges (which I like) such as structuring and re-structuring of multinational companies and to taylor tax efficient cross border business models. And, last but not least, applying existing Norwegian tax framework on taxation of crypto assets and business models, at a time when no/ very limited special regulation or authoritative guidance was available for crypto. That was much fun.
There has of course been no shortage of challenges in the Netherlands either, but I think I still need some time before I can look back and consider learning basic Dutch language and legal skills a career highlight. But I am sure the highlights will come!
Advice for Aspiring Tax Advisors:
What advice would you give to young professionals, especially those from Norway, who are considering a career in tax advisory abroad?
If you consider it, do it!
Tax is unversal, so there no boundaries to where you can apply your skills. And, although learning local tax laws and practices may take time, the transactions and legal contructions that taxes are applied on, are in the end very similar all over the world. So, even though I do not know what the Dutch regulation says about this and that transaction or company, i can make an educated guess, and most of the time end up in the right ballpark.
And of course, if Transfer Pricing is your thing, you can easily work in other country without having to pay muxh attention to local laws at all, at least not in a broader sense.
Anyways, I think any time spent learning new skills and language and a foreign culture, and experienceing the world and Norway through the eyes of that culture, gives you an invaluable perspective. And, as far as I can see, such experience is sought after more and more by Norwegian businesss, becaiuse the world only gets more and more internationalized.
Stay curious, keep learning and you will be rewarded!
Future Aspirations:
What are your future career aspirations, and do you see yourself continuing to work in the Netherlands, or do you have plans to return to Norway or move elsewhere?
My near future aspirations is to build up the Dutch – Nordic Tax Center of Excellence, to be the go to place for everyone that want to leverage EY’s vast network, and who wants to have full control of and optimize their tax on investments in the Netherlands and the Nordics.
In the longer term only time will tell.
The Dutch Norwegian Business Network extends its gratitude to Henning Laurantzon for being the first to answer DNBN's questions in our new interview series.
